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日本を代表する国民的大女優 高畑淳子

Representing Japanese Nationally Renowned Actress

Atsuko Takahata

Atsuko Takahata


ずっと大好きな女優さんだった。まさか、こんな幸運なことが我が身に起こるなんて!

高畑さんがマンスリーべっぴんのインタビューに応じてくださる」というお話を聞いた時、一瞬、 わが耳を疑った!

For the longest time she'd been my favorite actress. No way could I ever be this lucky?!

When I found out that Atsuko Takahata had agreed to do an interview with Monthly Beppin, for a moment I couldn't believe my ears!

 

毎日、テレビでお顔を見ない日はないほどの大活躍、ご多忙ぶりは日本国民だったら周知のこと。

紫綬褒章まで受賞なさっている国民的大女優、高畑淳子さんとお会いしたのは、昨年晩秋の都内某スタジオだった。

She is so active that the Japanese look forward to seeing her face on television practically every day.

Atsuko Takahata is also a recipient of the esteemed Shijuh Hosho (Purple Ribbon, a national award to honor special achievements in academia and the arts) for her contributions as an actress. In the late autumn of last year, I met with Takahata-san at a certain studio in Tokyo.

 

今年から始まるNHK大河ドラマ出演を控え、超多忙スケジュールを何とか調整してくださってのインタビューだった。緊張しながら、高畑さんをお待ちしている間、高畑さんを長年担当してらっしゃるというメイクさんと雑談した。彼がもらした一言が心に残った。

Atsuko Takahata appears in a Japanese history drama that has just begun this year on NHK, and she was able to take some time away from her ultra-busy schedule to sit down for my interview. While I was anxiously waiting for her to arrive, I was able to have a little chat with the make-up artist that has served her for many years. Something he said stuck in my mind.....

 

「ふつうは、女優さんってビッグになると、人間的に変わっちゃうもんだけど、ここまで全然変わらないのは彼女だけかもしれないね。」

"Normally when an actress becomes this big, her humanity completely changes, but she might be the only one who so far hasn't changed at all."

 

私がずっと高畑さんのファンだったのは、この人間力によるところが間違いなく大きい。人間として、大容量で、かつ優秀なスペックを持っている。この大容量のスペックに、色々なものをインプットして、プロセシングして、クリエイティブなものをアウトプットしていくのが、創造、表現することに携わる人々であり、女優という職業もそれに属するものなのではないか、と私は自分なりに分析している。そして、今回インタビューさせて頂き、この分析があながち間違っていないことがわかった。女優として不可欠のスペックの高さだけでなく、肩ひじ張らないナチュラルさ、優しい安心感、魂のピュアさ、ノーブルさ、幅広い年齢層から支持される魅力の全容が解明された気がした。

The power of Takahata-san's humanity is a big reason why I've been a fan of hers for this long. As a human being, and in such a large capacity, she also possesses outstanding 'spec(ification)s' ? detailed descriptions of how things need to be done. Input into this large capacity of specs go a variety of things that are processed into creative outputs ? and in so doing, as an actress, she engages others in the creation and in the expression of her work. One could say that this process is a hallmark of her profession, and that is how I view it myself. So here I was with this interview before me, and my conviction was confirmed as correct. Not only are outstanding specs essential for an actress, but also an unpretentious, natural demeanor, a gentle confidence, a purity of soul, an air of nobility, and a massive appeal that attracts support from people of all ages.

 

以下、数々のインタビュー質問の中で、いかにも高畑さんらしいお答え!と思われるものを列挙してみる。

Below are the utterly Atsuko Takahata-style answers to a number of my interview questions! And here we go, in this order:

 

Q.女優という職業は高畑さんにとって天職だと思いますが、どういう瞬間が女優をやっていて良かったと思われますか?

With acting as your chosen vocation, what sort of moments do you think have been the best for you?

 

A.稽古場(けいこば)で無駄話をしているとき。稽古場というのは、役に近づくためにはほとんどタブーがないエリア。他の職場だったら、やってはいけないことがいっぱいあると思うが、稽古場というのは何でもありの領域。失敗しないと人前でお芝居したりとか、自分と違うモノにはなれないので、そこでは何も恥ずかしいものはないっていう唯一のエリア。ですから、外に出たらやっちゃいけないこともいっぱいあるかと思いますが、稽古場の中で、役に近づきたい時は、心も裸になって、何をやっても許される、そういう場所が稽古場。で、稽古は好きかって言ったらそんなに好きではない。稽古しているより遊んでいる方が好き。ただ、そういう何でもやっていい空間で、色んなことをしゃべって、こんな失敗があったとか、こんな不思議な人を見たとか、人間てそんなこともやるのかもね、って、しゃべっている時が一番好き。稽古場が私の精神セラピーの場所のような感じ。解放できる場所、解放しないと芝居はできない。俳優という職業は、自分が鎧を脱がないとできない職業。普通の人が社会生活を営む時は、ほとんど鎧をまとわないとできないと思います。それと真逆なところが稽古場。そういう場所は一般的にはあまりないと思うので、女優になって稽古場でこういう時間を過ごせることがよかったと思います。</li>

Those times of idle chit-chat when we're inside the rehearsal hall. The rehearsal hall is an area in which for the sake of a role there are virtually no taboos about how to approach it. I think that other kinds of work are full of "don'ts" along with the things that one can do, but a rehearsal hall is the domain of "anything is possible." To be able to flawlessly perform a drama before an audience, and because one won't be anything other than one's own self, the rehearsal hall is the place where there's nothing to be shy about. Because there's so much that an actor must do in front of the cameras, inside the rehearsal hall getting close to the role, the mind itself becomes fully exposed, and whatever you do is allowed ? the rehearsal hall is that kind of place. And then, if asked whether I like rehearsals, I can't say that I do like them all that much. It's simply that it's a place where you can do what you want, chat about anything under the sun ? this time I did something wrong, that time I saw such a strange individual, people might do this sort of thing or that sort of thing, etc. ? those times that we chat are my most favorite. The rehearsal hall feels like a haven for my mental therapy. It's a place where I can let go, and if I don't let go then I cannot perform. In the actor's profession, one must let down one's guard. For ordinary people out in society, I think that it's usually impossible to do that. Within the rehearsal hall, it's exactly the opposite. And since there aren't many such places around generally, I think it's been good for me as a professional actor to have spent so much time in rehearsal halls.

 

―心を裸にする=スペックをいったん空にする作業?

To fully expose one's heart = a mind devoid of specifications?

 

彼女の魂のピュアさは、女優を続ける上で、何度もこの作業を繰り返しているからかもしれない。さらに、このコメントからもわかるように、「人間として本当にきちんと生きている!」人である。「ザ・日本人」って感じもすごくする!高畑さんの日本人観、日本人の精神の美学、世界的に見た日本演劇界、日本人の英語教育などについても伺ってみた。

As she strove to continue as an actress, her purity of soul may have emerged from all those times she has repeated this process. Moreover, it's clear from this comment that she's a "person who is living exactly right as a human being!" Plus there's such a strong sense of "The Japanese"! Therefore, I hastened to inquire about Takahata-san's outlook as a Japanese person, about her Japanese spirit of aesthetics, her worldly approach to the theater, English-language education for Japanese, and other such matters.

 

Q.日本という国は、歴史上、明治維新をきっかけに大きく変貌を遂げてきました。独自の日本文化に西洋からの文化が入り交り、何層もの文化層を持つ、ある意味、世界的にも特殊な国だと思います。その部分を外国人観光客が面白いと感じるようですが、高畑さんがお考えになる日本の魅力とはどんなところにあると思いますか?

Historically, the nation of Japan underwent a major transformation in the wake of the Meiji Restoration. Japan's own culture absorbed Western cultural influences, layer upon layer, which I think makes it rather unique among the other countries of the world. It seems to me that this aspect of Japan is what most interests foreigners who travel here. Takahata-san, what do you consider to be Japan's most appealing aspect?

 

A.仏教国であること。真面目なんじゃないですか。勤勉で、努力を重んじ、でも、最近の若いお嬢さんとか見てると、ちがうな、と感じることはありますが、基本的にはとても生真面目な国じゃないですかね。

That this is a Buddhist country. We're quite serious, aren't we. Diligent, with a reverence for endeavor ? although, when we see our young people of today, it will seem different sometimes..... But basically, one can say that Japan is a very no-nonsense country.

 

Q.それは仏教が根底にあるから、とお考えですか?

So you think that this seriousness is rooted in Buddhism?

 

A.仏教もそうだし、何が私たちの資質を作ったのかわかりませんけど、でも、基本的に農耕民族だったからかもしれませんが、穏やかで和を重んじる国だと思いますね。とはいっても、戦国時代とかもあったわけですから、戦ってた時もありましたけどね。

Partly Buddhism ? what created our basic qualities isn't completely clear, but it may be because in essence we were an agricultural society, a country that values serenity above everything else. Even so, our country has had its Warring States eras, our times in battle nevertheless.

 

日本は国土は狭いけど、海もあって山もあって、そういう意味では資源が豊富なんじゃないですかね。狭い狭い、って言われるけど、お魚も取れるし、木の実も取れるし、ちっちゃく耕せばコメも採れるわけだから、豊かな国。この資源と日本人の努力で今まで日本は通り抜けてきたと思います。モノを大切にし、手先は器用だし、勤勉だし、働き者だと思います。南の国の人とかほとんど働かない。私たち、すごく働きものだと思う。ラテンの人達は、働かなくてもいい、すぐそばに果実がなっていて、もぎったらすぐ取れる、という説もあるから。

Though Japan is a narrow landmass, there are the oceans and the mountains, and so it is admittedly resource-rich in that way. We say "so narrow, so narrow," despite having plentiful fish to catch from our waters, seeds to gather from our trees, rice to harvest from minimal arable land ? it's a rich country. With these resources and through the efforts of the Japanese, we have endured to the present day. I think we cherish things, we're skillful with our hands, we're diligent, we're hard workers. People of southern countries hardly work at all. We, I think, are terrific workers. Latin people don't much need to work, it seems to me. They have fruit close by to partake of anytime they like, which is one way to put it.

 

でも、日本人は備蓄をする。働かないと天罰が下る、とか思いますもんね。それも教育かな。小さい頃、悪いことしたら「バチ当たるぞ」とか言われたましたもんね。私の出身の香川県人なんて本当に勤勉です。一番ちっちゃい県なのにかかわらず、貯蓄率も一番高いらしいですよ。香川県には水もなかった。夏になると節水制限で、ポリタンクとか配られてね。日本は本当に仏教国だと思う場面が香川県には日常的にありました。うちが貧しくても托鉢のお坊さんが来るとお米をちゃんとあげたりする。弘法大師(こうぼうだいし)が生まれた県だから信心深いんです。

On the other hand, the Japanese people stockpile. Work hard while the sun is high, as the saying goes. I wonder if that applies to education also. When we were little, if we were naughty then grownups told us, "I'll swat that bee!” The people of Kagawa province where I was born were really hard-working. And though ours was the smallest province in the country, our bank savings rate was apparently the highest of all. We had constant water shortages. Summer meant water consumption restrictions, and so our water was delivered in plastic tanks and such. Back then, one really believed every day in Kagawa province that Japan is a Buddhist country. Even if we were poor, when the mendicant monks came by we would give them offerings of rice and so on. K?b?-Daishi [K?kai 空海, known posthumously as K?b?-Daishi 弘法大師, 774?835, a Japanese monk, civil servant, scholar, poet, and artist who founded the Shingon or "True Word" school of Buddhism] was born in Kagawa province too ? it's a deeply pious region.

 

2016 04 12 kobodaishiつまり、日本の魅力は、モノを大切に、人を大切に、和を重んじて仲良く生きていくところかな。色んな国から影響を受けて、色んな文化が融合しているのはどの国も同じ。でも、日本の場合は、鎖国という時代があり、300年近く、国を閉じていた。そして、鎖国時代が終わり、いきなり西洋を見て、早く西洋に追いつかなきゃ、と日本人が焦り、それが色々なものを狂わせた一因となった。鎖国は鎖国で悪くはなかったと思います。ただ、あの閉じていた反動が色々ないびつなことを生んだのも事実かもしれません。

In other words, Japan's appeal is in cherishing its things, cherishing its people, and living in deference to a harmonious existence. While receiving influences from various countries, the fusing of cultures is much the same no matter what country it is. However, in Japan's case, there was nearly 300 years of self-enforced seclusion as a closed country. Then, at the end of that closed era, the Japanese were suddenly looking to the West, and impatient to catch up quickly with the West ? that factors into the maniacal pursuit of various things here. Japan's isolation period in and of itself was not a bad thing, I think. However, it also may be true that the closed-off reaction gave rise to various distorted perspectives.

 

 

―このコメント、多分、70年前に日本が終戦を迎えた当時の日本国民の考え方とあまり変わってないのでは。やっぱり、高畑さんは「ザ・日本人」という私の仮定が実証された気がする。

Probably this comment derives from the general thinking of the Japanese citizenry of 70 years ago, when Japan had reached the end of the war. Indeed, I have the feeling that my assumption of Takahata-san as "The Japanese" has been demonstrated.

 

Q.日本人の精神の美学をどうお考えですか?どういう女性を美しいとお考えですか?

What are your thoughts regarding the aesthetics of the Japanese spirit? What sort of woman do you consider to be beautiful?

 

A.日本女性はどんどん変わっていると思います。でも、変わっているかもしれないが、うちの母なんかを見てると、美しいと思います。姿かたちではなく、階層とかそういうのを隔たりなく、どんな偉い人も臆せず、人間は基本的には平等だ、と考えて生きている人を美しいと思います。

I think that Japanese women are steadily changing. But even though they may be changing, to look at my own mother is to see something beautiful. It's not about form, or about class or rank, or about being a distinguished person ? I think it's beautiful to live the philosophy that human beings are fundamentally equal.

 

Q.日本の演劇界を世界的見地から見てどうお考えですか?今後、日本の演劇界はどういう方向を目指そうとしてるのでしょうか?

What do you think of Japanese theater from a global perspective? As time goes on, in what direction does the Japanese theater seem to be heading?

 

A.目指そうというよりも、既に日本の演劇界は、他の国と同様に、若い世代向け、女性向け、ミュージカル等、色々なターゲットに向けて色々なやり方をしている人達がいて、色んなジャンルに多様に分かれています。

Rather than having a particular heading, Japanese theater is already like that of other countries in its emphasis on the younger generation, women, musicals, and such; people in the theater here are spread out, focusing on diverse targets with a variety of methods throughout a mix of genres.

 

ただ、日本は韓国などと比べると、演劇に対する国の補助が少ない、日本のブロードウェイと言われるところも自力で集客しなければいけないので、お芝居の単価も上がっています。なので、お芝居を観に足を運ぶのは、お金に余裕のある中高年の女性とかが多く、全員がお芝居に親しむ環境というわけではないところが残念です。

However, when comparing Japan to countries like Korea, Japan has less state-supported assistance. The place called Japan's Broadway also must attract customers on its own, and this raises the ticket price of productions. So, many of those who come to see a drama tend to be upper-middle-aged women who have the money to spare, and it's regrettable that this is not an environment in which one can say that everybody is familiar with such a production.

 

たとえば、韓国なんかは、20,21時位から、仕事帰りの方たちが2000円位で、今日は何を見ようかな、という映画感覚で演劇が観れるし、俳優も国家養成でエリート教育がなされていますが、日本はそうではない。

For instance, in South Korea workers return home between 8 and 9 pm on average and have about 2,000 yen to spare ? they may wonder what they want to see and then go to attend a theater drama; actors there also receive elite educations at national training academies ? but Japan is not like that.

 

もう少し、日本も演劇の敷居が低くて、色々な人が見られるようになるといいですよね。日本でお芝居を一回も観たことがない人って半分位いるのではないでしょうか。実際のところ、芝居はあたりはずれも多いんです。一度高いお金を出してはずれるともう見たくなくなるので、是非はずれてもまた見ようか、みたいな値段で見れるといいし、外国の観光客の方にもちょっと来た時に見て帰って頂けるくらいの値段とか映画祭とか、そういうレベルで演劇界も広がるといいな、と思ってます。

It would be good if in Japan, too, theater could have a little more of a lower threshold so that many more people could go to watch. In Japan, probably about half of the people have not been to see a live drama even once. In fact, in theater there is a lot of hit-and-miss ? good work vs. trash. Having paid a high price and then been disappointed makes a person not want to see theater again. It would be good to have a level of pricing to ensure that people will definitely return even if disappointed before. And if foreign tourists could afford to attend a few showings during our film festivals and such ? to expand that sort of accessibility would be a great thing, I believe.

 

Q.外国人観光客が観る場合は、言葉の問題があるが、その問題はどうクリアすべきとお考えですか?また、英語で芝居をやろうというお考えはありますか?

For tourists from overseas, there is the language issue ? how should that be addressed? And what are your thoughts on doing a drama in English?

 

A.英語で芝居がやれたら面白いなと思ってますが、どうでしょうか。英語で芝居をやると今度は日本人のお客様にどう見せるかっていう問題があります。歌舞伎で勘九郎さんがやりましたが、あるお芝居の、弁慶のセリフだけを英語でやるとか、ああいう演出とかは面白いでしょうね。でも、全部を英語でやったら、日本人のお客さんは置いてきぼりをくいますし、その辺も上手くリードする人達が出てくるといいですね。日米合作で日英両方の言語に対応できるようになるといいですね。

I've been thinking that it would be interesting to do a drama in English, but I wonder about that. If we produce one in English, the question would be how to present it to the Japanese viewers. Kankuro-san did it in Kabuki theater. But in certain dramatic productions, should we have English only in a two-language script? ? that sort of thing would likely be interesting. Yet if we were to do a production entirely in English, the Japanese audience would increasingly be left behind, and so it's preferable to have people present who could skillfully guide the audience. In Japan?U.S. exchanges, it's best to be able to communicate in both languages.

 

Q.日本人は英語ができない国民と世界的に言われていますが、日本の英語教育についてどうお考えですか?

It's being said around the world that the Japanese are a citizenry who cannot speak English. What is your opinion on English education in Japan?

 

A.英語教育を12年間も受けているのに話せない国民は日本人だけじゃないですか。受験制度、英語教育に問題があるんだと思います。でも、日本人は能力はあるんです。ただ、日本人は恥ずかしがり屋、しゃべれなくても果敢にしゃべっていくという姿勢が取れない。恥をかいてはいけない、「恥の文化」が日本には存在しますから。「恥をかいてもいいんだ」という教育をすべきだったと思います。

The Japanese aren't the only nation of people who've received 12 years of English-language education yet cannot speak the language. I think there are issues with Japan's examination system and schooling in the English language. But, the Japanese do have the ability. It's just that the Japanese tend to be rather shy, so we don't feel very free to speak up even when we probably should. This is because, in Japan, one must feel shame, there is the "shame culture." I think that we should have educated our young people that it's all right not to feel this shame.

 

Q.将来的には、英語、日本語を自由に操った、もっと自由な演劇界になればいいという希望はありますか?

Are you hopeful that, in the future, by freely utilizing both English and Japanese the theater industry itself will become more open?

 

A.私はずっと、外国人になりたくて、英語をしゃべりたいという思いがすごく強くて、何回も英会話の個人レッスンに通ってきました。受験は英語で乗り切りましたって言えるくらい、英単語を丸暗記し、翻訳家になれるほどの単語力培ってきましたし、ペーパーの上ではどんな文章でもわかります。でも、マンツーマンの英語レッスンに行くとしゃべれない。

As for me, for practically forever I'd wanted to become a foreigner, and in my mind I've so strongly desired to speak English that I've been taking a number of private English conversation lessons. I can say that I've memorized enough English vocabulary words to survive a college-entrance exam, about enough vocabulary to become a translator, and I understand most sentences above the newspaper level. But, when I go to one-on-one English lessons, I'm unable to talk.

 

英語は大好き、英語がしゃべれたらな、と思います。海外の演出家の方が来た時に、休憩時間に話しかけようとするが、「あ~err」で終わってしまう。それがさみしい。自分の言葉でしゃべりたいです。

I think that if you love English, then it's good if you're able to speak it. At times when we've had a director from overseas, during breaks when I tried to speak in English, I'd end with 'Ah ~ err'." That feels lonely. I want to talk in my own words.

 

―是非是非、バイリンガル女優として英語を武器にハリウッドに進出していって頂きたい!それができる女優さんは日本では高畑さんしかいないでしょう!大好きだというジュード・ロウとの共演も楽しみにしていますから。

Definitely by all means, I hope she, as a bilingual actress, will use English as her weapon to advance into Hollywood! The only actress in Japan able to do that would be her! I look forward to Atsuko Takahata costarring with my most favorite actor, Jude Law.

 

sanada yukimura―さらに、現在手掛けてらっしゃるドラマ、戦国時代における第一級の武将、真田幸村の人生を描いたNHK大河ドラマ「真田丸」についても伺ってみた。

In addition, I tried asking Takahata-san about the NHK drama “Sanada Maru” that she is currently working in, which centers around the life of one Yukimura Sanada within an elite class of warlords during the Warring States period.

 

Q.NHK大河ドラマ「真田丸」の見どころを教えてください。

Please share some highlights about the NHK period drama Sanada Maru.

 

A.真田幸村というのはとても人気のキャラクター。日本はちょっと負けた人が好き。真田幸村というのも、違う道があったかもしれないけれど、主君に忠誠を誓うという自分の想いを通して、悲しく散った人、そこのところがとても人気だと思うし、こういう生き方もあるんだな、という感じ。こんな時代があったんだな、というところに興味を持って頂けると、日本の魅力のルーツがわかるかもしれません。

Yukimura Sanada is a very popular character. Japan tends to like the underdog. Sanada may have gone down a different life path, but such a man who'd sworn personal allegiance to his lord, who had died a sad death ? such a theme, I think, is extremely popular, and one can ponder about that way of life. There existed such an era once upon a time, and people with an interest in that may come to understand the root of Japan's appeal.

 

人間ていうのは、生まれて必ず死ぬわけで、人間の一生というものは決して長い時間ではありません。その短い時間に、後世に何を残すか、自分が散っても何が残るか、と、真田幸村は考えて生き抜いたと思います。これは、日本人に共通する一つの資質かもしれない。真田幸村の生き方から、そのあたりを垣間見れるかもしれません。

Being human means that once you're born, you're destined to die, and in that sense a human life is by no means a long time. In that short interval, 'What will be left to future generations?', 'Once I die, what will remain?' are the sorts of questions Sanada considered as he survived through life. This may be a quality that is common among Japanese. One may get a glimpse into it from Yukimura Sanada's way of living.

 

Q.撮影は大変ですか?

Is filming tough?

 

A.とても大変です。皆さんが45分のドラマを見るとしたら、その撮影にかかる時間はほぼそれの200倍かかっている。一日撮って2分位。とても時間のかかる作業。撮影はスタジオで行われることが多いけど、今は、最初のうちにロケの部分を撮っちゃうので、3時半に起きて、かつらをつけたり、着物を着たりの支度に時間がかかります。とっても大変な仕事です。

Very tough. If everyone is watching a 45-minute drama, to film it actually takes 200 times that amount of time. One day of shooting produces about two minutes. It's a very time-consuming task. Filming is most often done in the studio, but now because we will shoot first the on-location segments, we must wake up at 3:30 am because it takes time to get ready, get our wigs on, be dressed in kimono, etc. It's very hard work.

 

それでもやはり、小さい頃から、NHKの大河ドラマはずっと見てましたので、父親が私がテレビを見るのを好まなかったんだけど、大河ドラマだけは、父親が「大河じゃ、大河じゃ」って言って観てましたので、一家で唯一見れる作品だったんですよ。ですから、大河ドラマに出させてもらえるってのは嬉しいです。

Nevertheless, because I watched NHK period dramas at home all the time from when I was young, although my father did not like me watching TV, he did relent on those, saying "Taiga-ja, taiga-ja" (roughly, "A period drama, well that's OK then!"). Period dramas were the only thing my family could watch on television. And that's why I'm so happy I get to appear in one.

 

Q.今回の真田幸村のお母さん役で出演なさいますが、この役を演じてらしてどんな感じですか?

This time you are playing the role of Yukimura Sanada's mother ? what does it feel like to portray her?

 

A.今回は、人気脚本家の三谷幸喜(みたにこうき)さんが脚本を書いていますが、三谷さんはその役を演じる方のキャラクターに合わせてて書くのがお好きみたい。真田幸村のお母さんはその時代から考えると、ちょっと風変わりなお母さんなんですが、きっとそれも私に対してアレンジして作った役だと思います。

This time, the popular scriptwriter Kouki Mitani is writing the screenplay, and he seems to like matching the character to the actor who is playing the role. If you consider the era that Yukimura Sanada's mother comes from, this character is a slightly quirky mother, but I certainly think that aspect of the role was arranged as it relates to me.

  

あの時代の日本女性っていうのは、本当に、ひっそり語らずという人が多かったんじゃないかと思います。歴史的にも、女性の名前も記録に残っていない、そういう時代だったんですよ。その時代の女性の役割っていうのはたくさん子供を産んで、人質係っていって、よそにやられたりとか、女性はそういう低い位置づけだったかも。そういう時代の女性像とは違い、私が演ずるお母さん役は正直な人で、現代女性に通じる部分のある人かもしれません。

I think that, really, most women of that period kept very quiet. Historically too, women's names were not stored in registries ? it was that sort of era, you know. The woman's role in those days was to have a lot of children, being in a kind of hostage relationship, facing punishment and so on, because women had such a low social position. Unlike the female image of that period, the mother's role that I portray is a forthright person, one who may have aspects that led to present-day women.

 

sokanzuQ.最後に、今後の抱負をお聞かせください。

Finally, please tell us about your future aspirations.

 

A.もう60歳になりましたので、けがをしないように。私はとても遅咲きだったので、自分の身体を労わって頑張っていきたいと思います。せっかくお芝居が面白くなってきたので、やっと面白くなってきたときに、身体の方がどんどん老化していく。けがをしないで舞台に立ち続けたい、って思います。代わりのない仕事なので、穴をあけられない。でも、色々と体の不調が出てくるはずの年なんです。ですから、慎重にいかざるを得ない感じ。昔は本当に無茶してましたけど、そんなことはできないでしょうね。 

Since I've reached 60, I want to avoid injury. And because I was a very late-bloomer, I want to physically work myself hard. Now that the theater has become so intriguing, during a time it is interesting at last, I am aging physically more and more. I want to continue taking the stage without getting injured. There's no change in this kind of work, so I must avoid setbacks. However, this is the age where poor physical condition is bound to occur. Therefore, I feel that discretion is advised. Though the early days had been pretty reckless, it can't be that way anymore, of course.

 

ハリウッドも出られたら面白いでしょうけどね。

It would be exciting if I could appear in Hollywood too, though.

 

大好きなジュード・ロウが主演しているハリウッド映画「コールドマウンテン」に山奥でヤギの血を絞っている老婆が出てくるんですけど、そういう役で東洋系のおばあちゃんがいたら面白いかも。そういう役とかで出演できたら、って若い時に考えたことありますよ。カタコトの英語でもやってみたいって思います。 

Jude Law, who I like a lot, stars in the film Cold Mountain, which has this character of an old mountain woman who collects the blood from goats ? me in the role of an oriental granny like that might be pretty exciting. When I was younger, I imagined how it might be to play such roles. I'd even like to try speaking a little English.

 

coldmountain


殺人的スケジュールの合間に、特別のご好意から応じて頂いた今回のインタビューの機会だった。このインタビューの間、「私は遅咲きだったので」という言葉を何度か発せられていたのが印象的だった。

Taking a break from her murderous schedule, Atsuko Takahata had allowed me this interview opportunity as a special courtesy. During our talk, I was impressed that she had used the expression "because I was a late bloomer" several times.

 

お茶ノ水大学、早慶大学という難関大学に全て合格するほどの才女だったのにもかかわらず、「女優になりたい」との熱い想いから、演劇を専攻できる大学に進学した。そして、30歳までに芽が出なかったら郷里に帰るという、母との約束があった。時間的猶予が迫るギリギリの29歳の時にブロードウェイでもお馴染みの「セイムタイムネクストイヤー」という運命の作品に出会い、女優人生を順調に踏み出した。

As a woman talented enough to pass through the challenges of Ochanomizu and Waseda universities, from her passionate "determination to become an actress" she could enter college as a theater major. Then, as she had promised her mother, if she hadn't made a name for herself by the age of 30 she would return to her hometown. Her grace period had nearly expired when, at the age of 29, Takahata-san encountered the destiny opus "Same Time Next Year," one of America's most famous, long-running Broadway plays. From that point onward, her life as an actress had a smooth road ahead.

 

私は、「その表現者が、本物かどうか実証されるには、時間の検証を受けなくてはならない。」と考える。高畑さんが世に出るまでに時間がかかったのは、間違いなく「本物」だったからこそだろう。 

In my own thinking, for such a representation to be considered genuine, it must stand the test of time. That it took some time for Takahata-san to come out into the world is without a doubt precisely because she is the 'real thing' as a person.

 

女優である前に、まず、人間としてきちんと生きている、きちんと生きてきたからこそ時間がかかった。そして、表面だけ取り繕い(とりつくろう)、自分を飾ろうとは全くしない。「表面だけ飾ったところで、所詮は全て見抜かれる、だから、私はありのままの姿で生きていく。」と彼女が語っていたのを、以前、どこかで聞いた記憶がある。

Before being an actress, first she lives as a better person, and precisely because of that to achieve a career is going to take time. Then, since people can see through decoration, she does not try to embellish herself. "Once you have decorated just the surface, one can see right through it after all. So I will continue to live exactly as I am." ? I recall hearing somewhere that Takahata-san had spoken these words.

 

視聴者は、完璧な人間の姿を観ても面白いとは思わない。醜さ、愚かさをも持ち合わせた、本当の人間の生き様が観たいのである。

I don't think that viewers are interested to watch the facade of a perfect human being. Ugliness, stupidity ? these are qualities of real human life that people wish to see.

 

彼女は、時にはそんな欠点丸出しの女性を演じることもある。でも、不思議と、どんなに欠点があろうと、彼女の演じる女性たちは、悪人にはなりきれない可愛さを感じさせる。多くの日本人から彼女が支持される理由はそこにあるのかもしれない。

At times, there are drawbacks to portraying flawed women. But, miraculously, whatever drawbacks exist, the women Takahata-san portrays convey a sense of love that cannot be characteristic of a wicked person. This may be the reason why so many Japanese people are her steadfast supporters.

 

私は日本にはこんな魅力的な女優が存在することを世界の人にもっともっと知ってもらいたい。

I want many more people all over the world to know that there is such a fascinating actress in Japan.

 

グローバル化がますます進む昨今、日本の演劇界と海外演劇界の境界線もなくなる日が来ると思う。ネックとなっている言葉の問題だって、時間の経過と共に解消されるはずだ。日本という小さな島国の中だけで活躍するだけではあまりにもったいない。日本が世界に誇れる女優、高畑淳子氏。彼女の名前が世界に通用する日が来るのもそう遠いことではないと信じている。

I think that as modern-day globalization spreads out further and further, there will come a time when borders no longer exist between the Japanese and international theater worlds. Even problems caused by the bottleneck of words will be resolved with the passage of time. It is just too wasteful for only the small island nation of Japan to play an active part. Japan has an actress who can stand proud in the world, Atsuko Takahata. I believe that there will soon come a day when her name will be world-class.


高畑淳子様おすすめスポット

四国八十八か所お遍路

Atsuko Takahata`s recommenbable spot for the sightseeing in Japan!

Pilgrimage on Shikoku Island

 

総行程1,400Km、昔は世捨ての旅として知られた四国八十八ヶ所巡り。最近では、ただ信仰心の為だけではなく、健康のため、ストレス解消のため、これからの生き様を探るため等々……人生に潤いを求めて巡礼に奮起される人が昨今増えている。 今から約1,200年前、弘法大師が42歳のときに人々に災難を除くために開いた霊場が四国霊場である。後に高弟が遍歴したのが霊場巡りの始まりと伝えられている。人間には煩悩が88あり、霊場を八十八ヶ所巡ることによって煩悩が消え、願いがかなうと言われている。阿波で脚を固め(発心の道場 1~23番)、土佐で心落ち着け(修行の道場 24~39番)、伊予で信に入って(菩提の道場 40~65番)、讃岐で諸願成就する(涅槃の道場 66~88番)、そして最後に、高野山奥の院参拝で大願成就すると伝えられている。

The Shikoku Pilgrimage is a multi-site pilgrimage of 88 temples associated with the Buddhist monk Kūkai (Kōbō Daishi) on the island of Shikoku, Japan. A popular and distinctive feature of the island's cultural landscape, and with a long history, large numbers of pilgrims (known as henro still undertake the journey for a variety of ascetic, pious, and tourism-related purposes. The pilgrimage is traditionally completed on foot, but modern pilgrims use cars, taxis, buses, bicycles, or motorcycles. The standard walking course is approximately 1,200 kilometres (750 mi) long and can take anywhere from 30 to 60 days to complete.

ohenro

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